The Chair of The Commission on the Future of Oracy Education in England, Geoff Barton, was interviewed by Adam Boulton on Times Radio yesterday, as part of an ongoing segment covering Keir Starmer’s ‘5 missions for a better Britain’. 

The conversation tackled the promise that the new Labour Government will seek to ‘Improve opportunity for all citizens through improvements in childcare, schools, further education and lifelong learning’. This comes eleven days since the announcement from Education Secretary, Bridget Phillipson, that the recently launched Curriculum and Assessment Review will deliver on the Labour Party’s commitment to oracy, as first outlined in 2023.

During the interview, Geoff explained: “[Oracy]  puts the joy back into the classroom. Whether you’re studying science or history, the ability to listen to an adult explaining stuff to you, and then to be able to test those ideas with a person sitting next to you, and then to make an argument for whether you agree or disagree with something; that’s something we don’t need squeezing out of the classroom. It doesn’t come at any great cost. It will make teaching joyful, and the experience for young people also more joyful.”

You can listen to the full conversation here for a limited time only, or read the full transcript below. 

TS: 01:29.00

Full transcript: 

AB: Oracy – How can you teach it? How can you get it into the system?

GB: Oracy has been around for a long time, it’s how we learn stuff so when we are doing history or science we will have a conversation, perhaps in our own head when we aren’t talking to someone else about it, but then we will in the best classrooms use different skills to persuade, to analyse and particularly to listen, which employers, parents, everyone is saying needs to be a more important part of our society. 

Oracy therefore is in our schools but if you look at what we assess and what we say is important, we talk about literacy or mathematics, and what parents and employers are saying is that in the world of AI we should be preparing people to do exactly what we are doing now which is to explain things clearly, which is to listen critically, to be able to persuade and to be able to do all of that in a way which prepares them to take their place as citizens of the future, and to remind all of ourselves that its possible to disagree, but do it agreeably.

AB: And do you think then that there is a problem in how different schools perhaps those in less affluent areas are less good at encouraging this concept in children?

GB: I don’t know that it’s that necessarily it. I was a member of The Times education commission chaired by our very own Rachel Sylvester two years ago and the starting point for that was what you just heard from Lord Baker – that the curriculum has largely stayed the same for the past fifteen years or so and that there is a frustration with not necessarily equipping young people with the skills that they need. Now, some schools will be doing that because they have bold and confident leaders who recognise the importance of teaching speaking and listening. But, other schools who know that they’re going to be measured by all kinds of other metrics squeeze some of that stuff out. And I think what we have an opportunity to do now in Labour’s opportunity mission is to say: ‘Let’s just look at the curriculum, let’s update the curriculum without throwing everything in the air’; let’s not say that, ‘It’s all about technical education, or it’s all about the academics’. But rather, what we want is all young people to have a broad and balanced experience

And, as part of that, we want them to develop the very skills that we are able to use on a radio programme like this, so they too can feel a sense of belonging and a feeling that language is helping to connect them to the place where they’re growing up.

AB: We all know that resources are strained, can this be done, broadening the curriculum, without a great deal of further investment?

GB: I think it probably can. I think that the starting point is to have a look at what is working in the curriculum now, what could be taken out, what we need to replace in that…I don’t think there’s a huge cost in that, necessarily. And the interesting thing, Adam, for me is that is that ‘oracy’, what this stuff does, is it puts the joy back into the classroom. Whether you’re studying science or history, the ability to listen to an adult explaining stuff to you, and then to be able to test those ideas with a person sitting next to you, and then to make an argument for whether you agree or disagree with something; that’s something we don’t need squeezing out of the classroom. It doesn’t come at any great cost. It will make teaching joyful, and the experience for young people also more joyful.